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00:00:03 

[Flora Jhuang] 

So today we are going to discuss about does accuracy in English really matter in the workplace? Because we hear different perspective and we explore the real world scenario. And today it's time for us to reflect what really means for us as educators. So please feel free to share your thoughts in the chat box or you can also post any questions that you have through the Q and A tab. All right, so your question can also be.

Your question also can be for any specific debaters if you. If you have one. And we will review your questions by the end of the session. All right, so before we begin the debate, let me quickly walk through the agenda of the day. So.

So let's see. First, we are going to start with an initial vote, and we will launch a poll on Zoom so that you can cast your vote and see the result in real time. But if you are watching the recording of this session, no worry, you can still vote and you will see the result by the end of the session. And next, our debaters will present their arguments. So we will take turns sharing their key points and evidence to convince you to support their side.

00:01:22 

And then after the two rounds of debates, finally we will have one minute for the final response. So this will be their last chance to persuade you for their arguments and their points. So they will have about a minute for their last statement. And after that, we'll move on into the Q and A session. So please use the Q and A tab to submit your questions and feel free to address them to a specific debater.

All right, and finally, we will launch the final vote, and we will see which side you support after hearing their argument. All right, so let's see. Today we are going to debate the topic on how accurate does your English need to be in the workplace? And let's see the motion. This house believe that perfect English proficiency is essential for success in the modern workplace.

00:02:22 

So now please launch the poll and please share your idea. If you agree, please vote yes, but if you disagree, please vote no. And let's see how would the result be. All right, so I will give you about, let's say 30 seconds to cast your vote, agree or disagree.

Okay. Wow. So now we have a lot of participants joining, and I believe the result could be surprising because we have enough attendees here in this room. All right, so are you ready? Have you all submit your.

Your votes? Okay, so I guess it's time for us to see the result. Do you need a little more time? No. Wow.

I'm not sure whether you feel surprised, but I feel a bit surprised because it Seems like the results are very, very close.

00:03:29 

Right. So it looks like we almost have evenly split. However, we can see whether the debaters can shift your thinking as we move into the discussion. Okay, so I need. Gabriel, can you please help me to screenshot this result?

Because we can share this result by the end of the session and we can compare the result with the final vote. Thank you. And let's see. We are going to move on to the most exciting part of the day is to introduce our debaters. So today we have two teams.

We have red team and we have blue team. So red team, they will defend the motion, which means that they support the idea that perfect English proficiency proficiency is essential. And for blue team, they will challenge this idea. And we will have super and Nathan in the red team, and we'll have Louis and Will in the blue team. So let's welcome super to be the first debater to share her arguments.

00:04:33 

And super, you have five minutes to share your statement. All right, so hold on. Yes, let me check. Where's my timer? I need my timer here.

[Super Huang] 

Thank you, Flora, for the introduction. Yeah, I'm really, really excited and can't wait to give my first salver.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay. All right. So since I can't see my timer here on the apps, I don't know why. So I will use my phone as the timer. Okay. And I will let you know how much time does it remain.

All right, so you have about five minutes. Are you ready? Yes, ready. Okay, so let's go.

[Super Huang] 

So, my dear opponents and the fellow teachers out there today as the red team, I firmly stand in proposition of this motion, which is we believe that perfect English proficiency is essential for success in the modern workplace.

So first of all, let us be clear. What does perfect English proficiency mean here? So we do not mean like something like the queen or using fancy words or the most complex grammar structures. We actually mean precision, clarity and zero and gravity. So the ability to express your messages exactly as intended and to be understood without confusion, risk, or arrow.

So in the world where teams work across borders, time zones and cultures, I think this is not a bonus, it is a basic requirement. So let's take a look at some real consequences where English is not precise enough. So I'll give you a few examples. First of all, in 1977, two airplanes crashed on a runaway in Tenerife, which is in Spain. So.

00:06:32 

So 583 people died in that accident, which is the most deadly accident in aviation history, which is largely attributed to the miscommunication between the pilot and the air traffic controller, so the pilot said we are at takeoff, while the air traffic controller thought he meant they are ready to take off. The small ambiguity caused a really, really bad disaster. Afterwards, the entire aviation industry made standard and precise English mandatory for all pilots and air traffic controllers. And there's another very good example to emphasize how important accuracy and precision of English is that in aftermath of 911, one single word which is occurrence triggered a 3.5 billion legal battle because the insurance company the the policy failed to define it with linguistic precision. So the courts had to decide whether two planes crashes like minutes apart, cost should be counted as one event or two.

00:07:47 

So that proves that in high stakes global business, perfectly precise English isn't optional. It's the foundation of trust, of clarity, and also for accountability as well. But maybe you think these are special cases. What about regular jobs, like the ordinary jobs we do? I think imperfect English will carry real consequences for regular jobs as well.

For example, a customer service agent once confused suspend with cancel so he permanently deleted someone's account because he thought he was just pausing it. But the customer lost all his data and sued the company like as a consequence. And another example is a small online business owner. He wrote that her candle can help you sleep forever, which means a very like sounds like a death threat in English, not like relaxation. So he received like very bad reviews and lost her business as well.

00:08:51 

So it is right to say that we cannot use unprecise English in the workplace. It's very important to get the message we want to deliver and to be understood without confusion, even when we are speak the right language. Even when like highly skilled proficiencies, professionals can fail this kind of communication as well. For example, in 1998, the German automaker Daimler Benz and the American company Chrysler, they had a merge. But after 10 years the partnership collapsed, which is a very famous case of miscommunication.

Although they both speak English, but the German executives use direct and commanding language like this must be done. But the Americans saw it as rude or bossy. However, when the Americans suggest like okay, maybe we should consider doing this, maybe we should take this into consideration, were heard by Germans as indecisive or unclear. So these pragmatic misunderstandings about the tone, about authority and about intent in the language broke the trust and cooperation. So these examples, or like tell us the story that perfect English proficiency for clarity is the key for the success of business in the workplace.

00:10:23 

So thank you very much, thank you.  

[Flora Jhuang] 

So much super for the strong opening with the real cases. So as we can See that sometimes English is good enough. It's actually not enough. Right?

We really need to consider, like, for example, like aviation or even in terms of law, we really need very accurate English to prevent from some disasters. So thank you so much. Super. And next, let me. Well, let us welcome Louis.

And let's see, how would Louis defend super's argument? All right. So Louis, are you ready?

[Louise Connolly] 

Yes, I'm ready. Thank you, Flora.

00:11:05 

I'm delighted to take part in this debate. It's a hot debate. And I am going to argue against the idea that accuracy must reign in the workplace. Perfect accuracy in English is not a must in the workplace. What is really important is that communication is effective.

What I mean by that is that the person communicating can be understood. It's intelligibility, not word perfect, what we should be aiming for. Let's be honest. How many people are going to be CEOs of top companies? How many people are going to be air traffic controllers, airline pilots?

00:12:08 

If we look at the majority of people's jobs, I would argue that workplace success depends on other things than accuracy. On ideas, on actions, on interactions, on all those really valued skills that we see that employers are looking for from potential employees. Not flawless English. What counts is what people can do, what adds value to their professions. Most global workplace English is English as a lingua franca.

It's a reality. And in this global workplace context, clarity and shared purpose outrank native norms. What is needed is good enough grammar, plus sufficient knowledge of the area of work, of domain knowledge, plus strategies, plus the ability to collaborate, to cooperate, to contribute, to problem solve, to think critically, to create. These are the skills that are being sought after in the workplace. And this combination is what drives success in the workplace, not accuracy.

00:13:50 

World Englishes are legitimate. Scholars argue English has diversified beyond any single owner. In 1997, David Crystal wrote about English as a globalized language. A real documented phenomenon which we cannot deny. It's a fact which has a history that stretches back in time.

And in this globalized world, insisting on some kind of special, inner, exclusive inner circle accuracy ignores the social, the sociolinguistic reality around us. We must face facts. Accuracy is still, unfortunately, it's still bound up with this idea of exclusivity, this, this cultural supremacy, supremacy of certain countries. If we think about colonialism and post colonialism, however, we're in a globalized world which was actually, by the way, created by that very colonial, post colonial system. If we want to reduce inequality, if we want to overcome this colonial mindset, we need, we should promote Open global Englishes, not one English or two.

00:15:34 

In the case of the ongoing debate of British versus American English, World Englishes are here indeed, they've been here for a very long time. It's a reality. And for the majority of people in the workplace, English is a tool for which they need to carry out their job. They are. World Englishes are legitimate.

The standard only ideal is outdated for the current scenario.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, thank you so much, Louise, especially for your very expressive and persuading way of your speech. I feel that it's a really refreshing idea, especially when it comes to that English doesn't belongs to any group or on any standard. And also, you know, like contribution, as you mentioned, that we actually reward effective contributions, but not perfect English. Right. 

00:16:43  

So thank you so much for your arguments. And now let's welcome our next round. So here we go. We are going to move on to our second round of the debate. And for this round, Nathan will be defending the motions for the red team and will will be opposing it for the blue team.

And let's welcome Nathan. So, Nathan, are you ready?

00:17:12 

[Nathan Waller] 

Yes.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, let's go. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much, everybody for joining us.

[Nathan Waller] 

It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for super for setting up the red team in such a fantastic way. And thanks again to Louise for a very impassioned opposition. But I think I'm going to bring you all crashing back into reality right now because, yes, while intelligibility is important, and I would say that actually intelligibility happens a lot within the workplace, a lot of meetings may run on British English, sorry, business English as a lingua franca. Things, as super was saying, things like written outputs demand standardized, very accurate English because this is what's expected by regulators, auditors, insurance companies, multinational corporations. 

00:18:06 

But I'm going to bring it into a different angle now. I'm going to be thinking about the reality of the working world for most people, which is what Louise was talking about. Because when it comes to the world of work, we're quite often bound by things like power structures and gatekeepers. And I would argue quite strongly that gatekeepers reward accuracy a lot in terms of how we progress within hierarchies, how we get promotions. And so ignoring this reality, I think disadvantages our learners.

So let's think about a real world example. So let's think about Japan and a company called rakuten, which in 2012 mandated a certain threshold of English language as a standard within the workplace. Of course, some people lost their jobs, some people couldn't get up, couldn't keep up. Some people got demoted because of this English proficiency that they demanded. Now this is quite a long time ago, almost 15 years and one academic has been studying this throughout.

00:19:09 

They still mandate the same levels and people still talk about the impact that this has on credibility, global performance, alignment, all of these types of things, things. So I think that in the real world English language standards are mandated formally and I've seen this in education here in the GCC in the Gulf as well, where teachers are expected to perform and take tests and that's related to professional development and these types of things as well. So that's one kind of, kind of angle. The other angle is the way that the nature of the way that we work has also changed. You also have things like hybrid work now, you've got remote work and when you're doing face to face meetings there's a lot more chance for misunderstandings to kind of self correct.

Whereas when you're working in a hybrid or remote or you're doing teams meetings, there's a lot of occasions where miscommunications, misunderstandings, the examples that super was giving before about very small kind of grammatical errors perhaps actually impact on things like projects. So my wife, she works in events management and they are multicultural teams based all over the world, people from Europe or the GCC or Asia. And she quite often says she works in account management and they work alongside project management. And she quite often says that clients will ask for project managers to be changed because the way that they communicate impacts on the ability of the client to deliver a project, slows them down, inaccuracies cost money. So I would argue that actually accuracy is a really important point.

00:20:52

So there are two of my arguments. The last one in the last minute that I have is to bring this back to education, to bring this back to us as teachers. And I think that to teach the language accurately is to teach it ethically. I think that our learners demand and expect and deserve for us to acknowledge this gatekeeping within the real world, real audiences, real consequences of the way that they use the language within the workplace. So yes, while intelligibility is of course important, not for everybody.

You know, you can get the most powerful job in the world by being neither accurate or intelligible apparently. But for everybody else I think accuracy actually matters because we don't just want our ideas to be understood, we want to be taken seriously as a professional in the profession that I'm trying to develop in. So while we cannot claim to support learners futures while denying Them the linguistic capital that still governs access to opportunity. I don't think accuracy is an imposition. I think it's empowerment.

00:22:06 

I think it actually empowers students if they are able to truly articulate themselves in the right way with one second.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Thank you, Nathan. All right. So, yes, this is a very. I think you remind us as educators why it's an ethical preparation. Because if learners are preparing for exams or maybe interviews and anything that they need to prepare for the global workplace, then accuracy become very, very essential.

Right. So thank you so much for reminding the reality. Okay, so last but not least, we have Will. So, Will, are you ready?

[Will Rixon] 

I certainly am. Thank you for it. Yeah, very ready.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, let's go.

[Will Rixon] 

So, yeah, again, thank you to my fellow debaters. Excellent debate so far, especially from Louise from the.

00:22:59 

From the blue team. Very, very nicely delivered, Louise. Thank you for that. Good arguments as well. Love them.

So I've got two arguments to make just like everyone else. My first argument is that when we talk about accuracy in using a second language, we often talk about accuracy synonymously with one's accent that they are using when they're speaking that language. Now, I think that's what this argument is. So that obviously the better your accent or the more perfect your accent is, the better you are sort of going to progress in your life, as Nathan and Sufra, I think are putting forward. You know, you'll climb that ladder up to those gatekeeper positions.

00:23:38 

However, Derwing and Monroe in 2020 did a study in the Journal of a Second Language Acquisition. Sorry, second language pronunciation said that speech can be strongly accented but still highly intelligible. The teaching, teaching that we are doing in terms of pronunciation should target features that improve understanding of that person, and not so that person is sort of reaching for this particular type of English. For example, as Louise was alluding to, I'm talking about pronunciation of British English or Australian English or American English. That should not be what we're teaching our students to do, as that's been highly debated in recent years, that there is no one way to pronounce English.

On the contrary, actually, I'll come to that in a second. In 2000, Jennifer Jenkins did a study and produced a paper called the Lingua Franca Corps. A really interesting thing. I recommend everyone to look that up and to read into it. It claims that some sounds on a global level generally make English less intelligible when you're using it as a lingua franca.

00:24:45 

So when two people who haven't got English as their first language are communicating in English. They don't need to sort of rid themselves of their cultural heritage as it sort of seeps out of the language that they use. They should be celebrating the language, the accent that they have when they're using English, because it's beautiful. And there are many accents around the world that I think are wonderful when they speak in English. And we shouldn't be ridding themselves of that, only those particular sounds that make it difficult for people to understand them.

So cultures, in sum up for this first point, cultures are deeply embedded in accents and should be celebrated and not corrected along the way. My second point is to bring it back to teachers. And what we have been doing since the, let's say early 70s is teaching the communicative, the communicative language teaching approach. And that's been started, that's been taking root for the last 50 years. Which means, as we all know, is not to make them perfect grammatically and lexically, but to be good at communicating things to each other, to say things to each other with confidence and passion in order to inspire people and make positive change in the world, not just to make sure they get that present perfect exactly right, in the right place at the right time.

00:26:05 

The focus on so called soft skills of late have slowly started to dominate the language classroom. I think we can all agree that. And this is not so that they can get better at producing certain grammatical structures. It's so that they can be successful in the global workplace. I've got a particular case in point I'd like to make.

Just yesterday, someone extremely high up in Springer Nature. So Macmillan Education is owned by a wider organization called Springer Nature, an amazing organization, a journal that you might have heard of called Nature Magazine. One of the top dogs of that organization did a talk yesterday, very impassioned, and his aim, I think, was to impassion his company, to make them think about things in a different way. This person leads more than 10,000 people. One of those gatekeepers you were talking about, Nathan, and he did that by delivering an off the cuff speech with the thoughts that were at the front of his mind at that particular moment.

00:27:05 

Whether or not he succeeded in impassioning his workforce is down to each individual. I can't say whether it was or not, but I can tell you this, that person was not overly concerned with his grammar. It was not perfect English. He was not aiming to deliver this wonderful, perfectly written and devoted speech that he spent days on. He was trying to impassion his company.

And he would not have done that if he were overly concerned and even distracted with ensuring that he was using supposed proper English. On the contrary, aiming for perfect English in the workplace would stunt creativity and quash any potential inspiring that a single person can make or do to the people that they work with. Thank you very much, my speech is over.

00:27:52 

[Flora Jhuang] 

Thank you so much, Will. Wow.

To wrap it up in time and using the real cases, a fresh case that just happened yesterday. Yes, this is our first round of the debate and now we are moving on to the second round. So the second round we are going to give our debaters an opportunity to respond. So each of the debater have one minute to respond. So please share your strongest argument and to see how would you respond to your opponents.

And again we will start from. Super. So super. Are you ready for your 1 minute response? Ready? Yes.

[Super Huang] 

So thank you very much for the amazing arguments. But I would like to bring up this research done by Grammarly and the Harris poll in 2024 about the communication in the workplace. So it is said miscommunication in the workplace cost us business as estimated as 1.2 trillion every year. And in that research it is said like half of the workweek is consumed by written communication, not only speaking. So pronunciation is definitely one of the precision, but also in the written way.

00:29:16 

I do agree that values and ideas are very important, the ideas actions. But precise English doesn't replace these good ideas. It is the vehicle that delivers them. Without the precise English, even the best ideas can be ignored, misunderstood or cause harm. So we really need to have the precise English to drive the communication.

So that is my response to my dear opponents. Thank you very much.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Thank you. Thank you for visualizing this. Yes, I, I personally agree because I'm also an English learner and English as a second language, so it's a vehicle that to support us.

[Super Huang] 

Right. Okay, so now let's welcome Louis. So Louis, are you ready?

00:30:03 

[Louise Connolly] 

Yes, I'm ready. I've listened to all the arguments and yes, I understand where people are coming from.

But also my question to you would be how accurate, how accurate do we need to be to be effective communicators? I'm talking now with my Spanish teacher trainer hat on Spanish and Catalan by the way, not just English. I give training in Catalan, I give training in Spanish. I've been doing that for many years. And what Will was talking about in terms of the kind of skills you need to be an effective communicator, such as your passion, your confidence, the example he gave of the Springer Nature person, that is what has made me an effective communicator in my job, and it's a reality.

00:31:19 

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, thank you, Louis, for very inspiring questions at the beginning and your strong argument. And next, let's invite Nathan to share his argument. So, Nathan, are you ready?

[Nathan Waller] 

Yes. So I'm going to bring back. Bring us back to something that Louise was saying. So you were talking a little bit about kind of this idea of English for everybody and world Englishes, and you argued that world Englishes are legitimate and that intelligibility. Intelligibility is enough.

But I think the modern global workplace tells a slightly more complex story because legitimacy doesn't erase power and it doesn't remove the fact that HR teams, regulators, and often clients expect and demand a higher level of precision than what intelligible business English as a lingua franca can provide.

00:32:19 

So I think if we downplay accuracy, I think we're actually disadvantaging our learners because we risk equipping them only for entry level roles while the higher paying, higher status roles remain locked behind these accuracy expectations that we failed to prepare them for.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, thank you, Nathan. I just saw from the chat box that many teachers said they will vote for all the debaters. It seems that you're all sharing some really, really strong points and it's really hard to decide which point to stand. And let's welcome Will. So, Will, are you ready?

[Will Ricon] 

I am, thanks.

00:32:58 

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, let's go.

[Will Rixon] 

Okay, so my first point is in reaction, response to one thing that super you were talking about, you started your talk talking about aviation English, the English that pilots use. So I would like to respond to that and say that that is, I think, a pretty distracting example. Aviation English is extremely specific.

It's actually really coded. I taught aviation English for some years and it's, it's not really English in the workplace. It's a very different scenario. I think they're not, you know, we wouldn't, I wouldn't understand. English is my first language and I wouldn't understand a lot of what they're saying.

00:33:32 

So I think aviation English is, is not really an appropriate example. I think when we're talking about sort of global communication in English. And Nathan, one of the points you made, one of the points you made was accuracy in your work. Yes. But not accuracy in your language.

So I think also misunderstandings happen at work largely due to people being really proficient and inconsiderate of those who are not. I'm speaking really quickly so people can't understand. And also we're talking about proficiency in receptive skills as well as productive skills.

00:34:04 

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, thank you. Will, it seems that you did some research during the debate, which is amazing.

So wow. With a lot of strong statements. And now it's time for us to think. So, yes, I have seen that many of you have shared your questions through the Q and A tab and we may need some time to select maybe the most the best questions to address. So, yes, if you still have some questions, feel free to address them through the Q and A tab and we will select some of them to talk about it.

All right, so let me share my screen again. So just tell me if you can see my screen. All right, here we go. Is it working? It's coming.

[Louise Connolly] 

Not yet. It's coming on.

00:34:51 

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, what about now?

[Louise Connolly] 

Now.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Can you see my share screen? Yes. Yes, yes. Okay, so this was the result earlier for the first round. So we have about 43% of you, but actually with only about 168 votes that you agree the motion.

And we have about 57%. 57% of you disagree with the motion. And it actually the time for us to think about whether you have been swayed by our debaters. Okay, so, Gabriella, could you please cast the final vote and during the time we can review the Q and A. So let's see.

00:35:42 

Q and A. All right, so as there are too many questions, I may just select some short and simple questions that will be more. That will be easier for our debaters to address. So one of them mentioned about culture. To what extent do you think a person's home culture influences their opinion in this debate?

Yes, so I remember some of you have mentioned about culture and also how can we define where perfect English is presented as a necessary. As a necessary necessity for successful business? Okay, so I think this question may be for red team, I guess. Red team, could you please address your thought on this?

00:36:31 

So we have super and Nathan, who would like your address. Your idea.

[Will Rixon] 

Blue team can take it if you like.

[Nathan Waller] 

Guys, I was going to pass it to Super. Go for it.

[Super Huang] 

So would you like us to, like, readdress our opinions? Yeah, so I was, yeah, reading the. The comments. Yeah. Because there are so many good comments in the. In the chat box. Yeah.

00:36:59 

I think the definition about perfection is sometimes a little bit, like, ambiguous for us as well, because when we think about, like, perfect, it sounds like C2 English in the English proficiency level. But actually in the workplace, I think it means, like, we can take all the elements into consideration about effective communication using the right word in the right context with the right pragmatic, like, elements to get the message delivered as intended and to be understood without, like, confusions is really, really the key for, like, the best effective communication. So I believe precise English accuracy will definitely support and help us to get our ideas and messages across, especially in the workplace, because we're not in the classroom any longer. In terms of working like a place, we need to make sure that accuracy is slightly in a higher level compared to the classroom. We as teachers need to make sure our adult learners, our university students, will understand how important accuracy will play in the workplace.

00:38:13 

So that is the final summary of our points.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Yes.

[Will Rixon] 

Can I respond to Vicki's point there as well, please, Flora?

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay, sure.

[Will Rixon] 

So, thanks for the question. Vicki, one of our GCF speakers from last year. Vicki, welcome back. Hello.

So I would like to respond to that in terms of person's home culture affecting their opinion on this particular debate. And I think it's.

00:38:39 

It's a really good point. You know, that. I mean, we, I think we had references to the Japanese culture, and I can't speak to the Japanese culture because I haven't been there. I don't know it well enough. But I do know that your culture and where you are based will have an impact on this particular debate for sure.

And I think if, you know, there are some cultures in the world that would like that to be your English to be perfect, and it will be an issue if you're not. But I think this debate is actually talking about the global workplace where you've got a variety of cultures, and we're talking about that global culture, which is probably shaping and shifting on a daily basis. But if, if, if we're talking about that particular culture, the global culture, I am a member of it. I've been in it for years now. And I don't believe that perfect English is an indicator of someone's ability to do something.

00:39:29 

If their English is kind of not great and they're not really sort of putting their ideas forward because I can't really understand them or people don't really understand what they mean by things, that's when it becomes a bit of a problem because their English just isn't up to a certain level. But I think if they're intelligible, which is our sort of main point, if they are intelligible, it does not matter if their English is perfect. They just need to be understood.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Okay.

[Will Rixon] 

In the global. In the global culture. Global culture.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Thank you. Thank you so much for the ads on from Blue Team from Will. Okay.

And let's move on to another question. It's also about English proficiency. So we have a question from Irina. How important is perfect English for an English teacher? Wow.

00:40:15 

I think this is a question that many English teachers would like to know. Does holding a C2 proficiency certificate mean my English is perfect? I doubt it. So maybe this time we can invite a debater from blue team so you can share your idea first. So we have Louise and Will, right?

What about Louise? Would you like to address your. Your thought on this?

[Louise Connolly] 

Yes. This is a comp.

It's not. None of These questions are 100% one way or the other in terms of teaching and level of accuracy and having a C2 level. I mean, the certificates that people have are only as good as the level they actually have.

[Flora Jhuang] 

Yeah.

00:41:09 

Right now, okay, you could have a certificate, B2 level, C1 level, C2 level.

But if over time you're not working on your language, that certificate might no longer be representative of your real level in terms of teaching. The reality is that, for example, in here in Spain there are a lot of language schools where there are non native language teachers. And I organize events here in Spain which are attended by non native English teacher teachers. And I have actually observed classes as well because I have been into classes where in schools to do research on the ground. And I've been allowed very kindly to observe classes in situ with teachers who are non native speakers.

00:42:17 

And the state school system here is. Is made up of non native teachers. And the. This is the reality in terms of how accurate they need to be. Obviously, the more accurate you are, the. More.

The more in terms of preparing students, for example, for exams etc, probably the more well equipped you are. But my experience in observing these classes, in organizing these events, in talking to the teachers, is that what is really important, what is really, really important is to use the language as accurately as possible. But what is really, really important is your pedagogical approach. How you are as a teacher in the classroom, what methodology you apply, how communicative you make your classes, what kind of, how much you involve your students, encourage them.

00:43:42 

And in a bilingual context, teachers naturally use their first language in order to help them, for example, interact with their students. Where there is a breakdown in understanding, but that's a natural thing. Just as mediation or paraphrasing, etc.

[Will Rixon] 

With, I think with. In terms of C2 proficiency.

I think when you're aiming for C2 proficiency, you're doing that often. C2 exam is usually for quite a specific reason or you're particularly driven. You just love learning languages. You need to do C2. I think there are few jobs that require you to have a C2 certificate.

Unless someone's just made a point. Yana just made a point about teaching English. If you want to teach English in some institutions, they expect you to have C2 certificate, and I think that's understandable if that's what that institution feels is necessary for that particular scenario. They need to have C2 level of English. That's fine.

00:44:48 

That's their level they said they need to do. But like aviation English, that's a really specific job. We're talking about global workplace. When we're talking about marketing teams and corporate companies in Silicon Valley, you know, nothing to do with language. Nothing to do with a specific sort of scenario where you're using language.

C2 proficiency is also. Yeah, just to answer your question, it doesn't mean that your English is perfect. It means it was C2 level of proficiency during that particular exam, as Louise was saying at that particular moment. But I don't think it's not necessary to have a seat. In my opinion, it is not necessary to have a C2 proficiency of English in order to be a huge success in the global workplace.

00:45:31 

[Flora Jhuang] 

All right, thank you so much for our blue teams, especially back up by native speakers. I think this is really persuasive and encouraging. Right. And last but not least, we still have a question. It's about.

It's also about proficiency, but it's especially in company or business setting. So we have a question from Jinky. In multinational companies, is clear communication more important than perfect English, like native English levels? And if we do encourage striving to perfect English, would that motivate second language learners to improve further? So maybe we can invite Nathan.

Nathan, would you like to address your thought on this?

00:46:19 

[Nathan Waller] 

Sure. Just really paraphrase the question again, because the first part was the whole debate. I think so. I don't raise everything you said, but it's about kind of motivation for second language learners.

Maybe I'll touch on that part a little bit. I mean, I think this has been such a wonderful debate. I mean, I've loved watching that chat. I think this has been like the amount of ideas and like the challenging comments that people have been putting in really show the kind of, I think, engagement with this topic, which. Which I think is really great.

I would agree with a lot of what Louise said. I think we should definitely caveat that what the speakers have said in the four arguments might not represent everything that we totally believe. But I definitely agree with. With Louise. Yeah, you.

00:47:02 

I mean, and the reality for a lot of teachers is that, you know, if you think about state school systems, you could be a science teacher one year and the English teacher the next year and then the math teacher the year after. So the complexity of teaching environments changes all the time depending on, again, your, your cultural context or where you live in the world. So that definitely impacts on people's language levels and abilities. In terms of the motivation part, I think, I mean, I would, I would agree that, yeah, if you can be clear in your, your ideas, if you can contribute, if you got professional understanding of the working environment that you actually work in, whether that's marketing or aviation or whatever it is that you can contribute, I think that's definitely important. But I think if you are showing a willingness, if English is used a lot in your particular field and across groups and across professional functions, if you show a motivation, if you show a willingness that you are trying to improve continuously as part of your professional.

00:48:06 

So you're working on pedagogy, you're working on methodology, you're working on this stuff that Louise was saying, how students feel in the classroom, because that is important. But you're also saying, I'm working on improving my personal grammar. I think that's respected within the workplace as well. That's motivating in itself, perhaps.

[Flora Jhuang] 

All right, so thank you so much, Nathan, for wrapping this up.

And I can see this will be a non stop discussion as we have so many very, very like, good examples to share. So now, Gabrielle, I think it's time for us to show the result. I believe you have enough time to cast your vote for the second round and let's see whether our audiences have been swayed. Wow. Okay, so as you can see, yes, so because now we have more audiences, so maybe the result could be a bit quite different.

But however you can see, it's still quite, I will say it's still quite close. Almost 50. 50. Because we have 46% of you agree and 54% of you disagree. All right, but all, all in all, it's a really good debate and I really appreciate, I really appreciate everyone's input and contributions and even for our attendees to share your thoughts through the chat box and the, and the QA tab.

00:49:29 

All right, so thank you so much for your questions and your thought and as you can see, today we have four debaters in the room. We have Super Louise, Nathan and will. Feel free to connect them on LinkedIn and follow our latest post and our latest events. All right, so thank you so much for coming.