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00:00:04
well there we are so as you've heard I'm David Crystal and Ben where have you gone Ben hail fellow well met good tomorrow Ben look that's not right we're in the 21st century that's how we start a conversation in Shakespeare's time look go out and come in again oh okay good day to you sir how do you do a bit better but you're in the 18th century now that's how you might greet Dr Johnson go out and come in again okay uh hey how's it going that's more like it hey

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dude dude dude I'm not a dude am I a dude no I am not a dude all right at least we're in the 21st century now and um welcome to everyone here in the 21st century to our talk today which we have called let's talk together face to face well and uh scream to scream and the important word in that title is together not talk no no together why why why together well because it's the togetherness of a conversation that makes it work well and when it's not there conversations become very difficult okay well let's explore

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togetherness then we are together now having this chat yeah yeah face to face and being filmed at the same time which makes the situation a bit odd mhm so what is it that shows were together well several things the fact that it's face to face for a start we're looking at each other some of the time if I were to look away while you were talking it would seem as if I wasn't paying attention could even seem rude and then did you know notice what I said when you started to talk just now I I didn't hear

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you say anything ah but I did and that's the point you're not supposed to notice it except you know unconsciously okay look let's redo that bit of the conversation and I'll point it out as we go along okay okay uh now um how did it go uh right yeah uh so we're together now having a chat face to face and at that point I said mhm yeah you did yeah no why why why did you do that well it it's one of the most important ways in which we show togetherness it's called simultaneous

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feedback simultaneous feedback Sim simultaneous feedback okay it means the reaction somebody makes oh right like when a shop asks for customer feedback about something well exactly I was giving you a reaction to show that I was listening ah and and you've just done the same thing now you just said ah and I said mhm and I answer yeah to show I was agreeing with you and and I followed it up with a quiet laugh and a nod which has a positive meaning in British culture all to reinforce the point you were making and you were doing

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it at the same time as I was talking that's why I called it simultaneous feedback and it's what makes a conversation work in a smooth and comfortable way well at least in English so I suppose there are cultures where this doesn't happen so much well indeed but but English speakers do it all the time and there are dozens of vocal reactions available dozens of such as well uhhm yeah really oh sure uh-huh no gosh okay I get the point wow Q haha hey that's enough I I think everyone's

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got the point but basically what you're saying is that listening is a very active process well it is listeners don't keep silent while somebody's talking to them and they don't keep their faces immobile I mean if they do if they don't give any feedback they they begin to feel uncomfortable and and and if it goes on for too long they won't be able to continue with what they're saying they pause and say such things like are you all right um are you feeling okay uh have I said

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something that's offended you I was just making your point for you that's a relief I thought for a moment there might be something wrong with the recording we're making no all's well yes it is definitely ah now that illustrates another point you asked a question with no hope of getting an answer looking at the looking at the screen questions are another crucial thing in face to-face chart aren't they aren't they hey yeah Tag questions tag questions always an important section in

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an El course book aren't they because they change so much and I remember the same thing when I was learning French that wasn't such a problem nespa Oh indeed lots of languages don't vary their Tag questions but English does as all you Learners know very well and then there are all the other ways in which we question each other like well like like that's a prompt and a minute ago you said such as that's another prompt it's kind of interruption really interruptions get a bad press

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usually though well yes etiquette guide say one should never interrupt and in fact interrupting can be a very positive process very helpful in promoting togetherness like when I chip in and ask you to clarify something exactly right and what about uh intonation The Melody of the voice oh very important especially when we want to make a statement and want our listener to react at the same time we use a rising tone of voice which sends an alert to The Listener like is that what people sometimes call upt talk oh yeah yeah up

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talk it's been a feature of English for hundreds of years but it's very noticeable these days especially among young people who often use it repeatedly when when they're talking would you illustrate it I'm I'm not sure well I think so yeah it might sound a bit odd coming from me but let me say young well of heart definitely let me say that last sentence again in an upt talk way this is upt talk I said it's very noticeable these days especially among younger people ah okay it's as if you're

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checking with me you wanting my support building Rapport really I suppose and for many people it's become an important feature of face-to-face conversation not everybody does it and some people really dislike it especially when somebody speaks like that all the time Oh you mean like what about grammar are there any grammatical features right I see yeah but what about grammar are there any grammatical features that people use that promote the togetherness we've been talking about well I think

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the main thing is the way we introduce little phrases into our sentences phrases is that show we're thinking of our listener while we're talking like you know oh or uh you see yeah and mind you and I mean and the variations on I mean such as I mean to say or uh know what I mean yes right they all reach out to The Listener in different ways linguists sometimes call them fillers f i l e RS fillers or comment Clauses and they can convey a wide range of meanings why don't we explore one in a bit more

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detail then okay which one would you like you know yeah you know all right that's one which changes its intonation depending on whether we use it at the beginning of a sentence or in the middle or at the end I'll give you a sentence and you tell me what it means okay uh uh at the beginning okay I'll say it two ways first without you know and then with are you ready I'm ready okay I need a new coat you know I need a new coat what's the difference Josh well uh the first one sounds a bit abrupt you know just a bit

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out of the blue but when you added the you know at the beginning it made it sound more friendly yeah it's sort of asking for a bit of sympathy so now here's an example of you know in the middle of a sentence okay I'll meet you in the shop you know the shop on the corner what's happening there oh well uh that you know gets rid of an ambiguity it's like you realized that the shop by itself isn't clear enough so you add some extra words to help and then the intonation is different yeah it's low

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down you know different from the one I used before you know which was high up you know I need a new coat you know the shop on the corners very different isn't it okay and and what happens when you put your know at the end of the sentes well there are two choices now with different intonations one is high up like a tag question you'll need to book a car you know you know like that what does that mean that well that sounds like are you checking to make sure I know what a car is like like I do I

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realize is that okay with me yeah that's right and then and then what about this one with a low Rising intonation and usually said slowly how about this go on I've just spoken to your cousin you know oh God that yeah that sounds like there's trouble Brewing some sort of issue that we both know about indeed right yeah yeah it sounds as if it sounds as if we can use you know anywhere in a sentence well not everywhere it wouldn't work in the middle of a compound name for instance we wouldn't say I've just been to New

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you know York no no I suppose a compound word like a washing machine I just bought a a new washing you know machine no that would be very odd I suppose all of this is to help a conversation Bowl along smoothly and fluently but these days we have online conversations too so does that sort of thing happen here well let's try it out let's uh have you go on my laptop okay you go off and I'll call you up on my laptop all right okay you ready yeah okay oh this is a did you just buy this one I made earlier very swish

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machine it's Apple's top stay of the line okay all right well this is going to be a very different experience and it's something I suspect most people have found they can find chatting online tricky or tiring or uncomfortable and it's because the interaction is missing all of the features we've just been talking about so I've put my laptop in a place where I hope you can all see Ben and me together so hi Ben hi Ben sorry I was on mute um all right hello yeah you see he was never mute

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before was he let's continue our chat yeah well there's the first thing did you notice that pause before Ben replied a time lag between us it might be uh because of the technology or it might be because Ben isn't sure whether I'm expecting him to say something yeah I thought you were about to say something else and I don't know whether you want to say something either Ben which leads to the familiar situation of a breakdown with both people talking at the same time yeah a situation where oh sorry sorry look you

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go oh yeah what that could be what were you about to say going to that could be very annoying especially when there's more than two people in the online chat yes and the more people there are the more the speaker finds it less of a conversation or more of a speech or a lecture and there's no simultaneous feedback exactly well I'm speaking to you you're not going uh yeah or or any of the other noises we make when face to face or if you are I can't hear them or see them you're not making the same

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changes in your facial expression that you would if we were together you're just staring at a camera or maybe not even that with your eyes looking at your screen not in the camera we're not together yeah each of us is on our own and without these helpful interactions or reactions we have to make the best of it have to concentrate that little bit more which is why at the end of an online conversation many people say they feel so tired yeah there's an artificiality we have to overcome and

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it's a especially noticeable when AI is involved and people find themselves talking to a robot or to an AI model trained to talk like someone we know you can nod and smile as much as you like to a robot won't pay any attention to you not yet anyway not of course the technology tries to help especially when there are several people chatting like showing a raised hand but often that can be missed and it's a problem when there's more than one hand raised at the same time we have to invite the

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participants to speak which is even more artificial from The Listener point of view it's difficult to know when or how to interact it's virtually impossible to insert a quick prompt for instance as we were doing when we were talking face to face earlier on and what happens to all those filler phrases like you know well people are reluctant to use them I've listened to many online chats from this point of view and they hardly ever appear it's the same with social media I suppose oh yeah you hardly ever see

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phrases like you know or I mean there the exchanges are are shorter more succinct and that means they come across as more abrupt yeah and even if someone was bothered to insert a you know for lack of intonation would make the force of the phrase difficult to to feel now adding a smiley or an emoticon can help that well it can but they can easily be misinterpreted a smile can be friendly or humorous or sarcastic even threatening good evening Mr Bond and that's the bad guy talking so how's about coming back for

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some more offline chat to end this talk yeah okay go shut shut your computer down yeah all right bye come on take take your take your laptop yeah thank you very expensive this laptop there we are yes emotions can be tricky things some don't travel across cult a thumbs up symbol doesn't always mean good it could be an insult in some places and I recall a lively online debate a while back about whether the the folded hands emoji means please or thank you or I'm sorry or I hope or I pray or Applause and I don't know what

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there was no consensus oh sorry I'm late it was just awful traffic getting back here oh that's clear yes oh well that's another big thing about a physical face-to-face conversation we use gestures and our body position as well as facial expressions to tell our listener what's going on you know hey Ben that sort of thing and we use words like here and there and this and that to show what's Happening they're pointing words and they work well here face to face but not on screens look over there Dad where oh

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I see it's an example just that good an actor yeah yeah yeah I couldn't say that on screen though true look over there Dad yeah it wouldn't make sense so in our talk we've been focusing on the differences between offline and online conversation but there's a great deal in common as well I mean take storytelling for instance conversations are full of people telling stories or recounting what's happened to them and whether you're telling a story online or off doesn't make much difference stories

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have their own grammar and style wherever they're told wait wait what what do you mean their own style of grammar well tell me a story and I'll point out a couple of its features but make it a short one as we're due to finish in a few minutes and answer some questions from viewers all right okay once upon a time no so uh well this morning I set off early to get here to make this recording and uh I'm on the main road when when you know of course there's a traffic buildup and everything

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slows right down and I thought I'd better let you know that I might be late so I and so I pull into a layby and I get out my mobile phone and of course there's no signal and so I set off again and in fact you were here in good time so that's enough anyway to illustrate a big point about that kind of informal storytelling did you notice the way Ben joined his points together I'll emphasize the list list the linking words he said there's a traffic buildup and everything slows right down and I think

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I better let you know I might be late and so I pull into a layby and get out my mobile phone but there's no signal and so I set off again it's just one enormous sentence with all the bits linked by and or but and so yeah you wouldn't write it like that would you well no I'm not not if you're trying to write a good stylistically correct essay you know it sounds fine when you're speaking sounds fine when you and actually some playw writes are very good at creating realistic conversations like

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this you got an example in your head oh yeah well you introduced me to this playright Harold Pinter from the 20th century you one of the titans of English theater and a play one of his first plays actually called the room a character called Mrs Sans is telling the others how she and her husband were looking for somewhere to live we're looking for a place you see somewhere quiet and we knew this District was quiet and we passed the house a few months ago and we thought it looked very nice but we thought we call

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of an evening to catch the landlords so we came along this evening so there we go you see and and and and so Pinter is great at naturalistic conversations One reviewer at the time said he had a tape recorder for an ear then most conversations in place aren't like that uh we started with a Shakespearean greeting so why don't we end with Shakespeare 2 this is a the gentleman giving an account to his friends of the revelations at the end of Shakespeare's one of his last plays the Winter's

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Tale I make a broken delivery of the business but the changes I perceived in the king and Camilo were Airy notes of of admiration they seemed almost with staring on one another to tear the cases of their eyes there was speech in their dumbness language in their very gesture they looked as though they had heard of a world ransomed or one destroyed did you notice four separate sentences the grammar is much more structured and the sentence is succinct it's hugely effective writing but a long way from

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the very Loosely linked units of informal everyday speech well there we are yeah we hope that youve enjoyed these few thoughts about how conversation works as a taster for the insights planned for the rest of the festival and tomorrow especially I think they're doing a lot on conversation tomorrow oh great well we've set you up for tomorrow hopefully now but remember there are three key points when you're thinking about the differences between face tace and online conversations okay

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one The crucial role of simultaneous feedback when we talk face to face and its absence when when we talk online two the importance of those grammatical features of interaction that make a conversation flow smoothly you know and three the way our gestures our faces and our body positions bring us together and you can't do that online